ProOne 6200 Tenor Saxophone (1/4/2023)
I don't waste any time, do I? I just shipped the B&S to it's new
owner and I've got an Antigua ProOne 6200 on order. I think
this will be the last one I try for a while, I'm losing too much
money on shipping and selling fees! Famous last words... It
could be a keeper. From the reviews and the tech features, it
seems like a winner.
I had a temporary in there too. I found a Selmer TS44, a
Selmer USA / Selmer France made in Taiwan collaboration, with a
Selmer France neck and mouthpiece. The guy described it as
well taken care of and used only one year for high school
concerts. It's a nice looking horn in the black nickle and
silver. What a disaster that was. I shipped it back the
same day. It had dents in it, heavy abrasion, corrosion,
scratches, and a felt fell off as I was testing it. The seller
didn't mention any of that, and there weren't enough photos
and detail to see it all. Didn't even put any padding around
the case in the box. Anyway... couldn't find another one in
the price range but then a few of these Antigua's showed up on
One of the things I discovered doing this comparison is that Eastern
Music seems to make really good instruments. But I'm getting
ahead of myself.
So, here's what it looks like:
So, what got me interested in it was recommendations and that it's
designed by Peter Ponzol, who's been in the design of saxophones for
decades for various manufacturers. And he's done some things
on this horn that really make sense to me. Noteworthy are:
1. Uses a custom brass which contains a higher amount of copper to
match what use to be done with the French saxophones in the 50's.
Which should give a warmer sound with more projection. I like
that because my Eastern Music is a Rose Brass, high copper, and I do
like the response of that instrument.
2. It's cryogenically treated. Apparently that's a way to
destress the metal and improve the tone.
3. Reviewers say that it's substantial, heavy, and that gives it a
darker tone. Feeling solid is a good thing.
4. It's a new neck design to give good tuning, and it actually
raises the mouthpiece higher. That's good for me because I'm
tall, but Peter also says that gets you to tilt your head up and
open up your wind pipe. Combined with having two attachment
rings, maybe my support harness won't need to be up so high.
5. There is a G# lifter mechanism. Every saxophone I've had
the G# can stick because it's spring lift. This is a
mechanical lift. Keilworth sax's, which Peter worked on also,
have the same feature.
6. The five tone holes on the bell are all ringed, similar to
rolling the tone holes. But this is the only instrument that
has a mixture of drawn holes on top, and the ringed holes on
bottom. Peter says that provides a more uniform sound across
the full range and makes the lower notes easier to play. It
also provides a consistent resistance from top to bottom.
7. Some of the bell tone keys also use trident arms, patented, with
adjusters on them to stabilize the large keys and allow adjusting to
close any leaks. This is one step beyond the double arms that you
sometimes see on other saxophones.
It comes in a couple colors, above is the Classic Antique.
I listened to all the reviews plays I could find and they were all
positive. Here's the links to Peter's explanation of the
design and some of the reviews.
Don Braden Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwDqv-ssJGw
Paul Baker Review: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7lSLYerJc0
Ian FullWood Playing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1YMULCUotjA
Kevin Gibbs Antiqua ProOne Comparison to Selmer Mark VI: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cp005DJMqS0
Here's a written one pager: DownBeat
Also got a deal on it because it's a closeout sale on Ebay through
one of Antigua's dealers. $1800+tax. Brand new with a 30
day return policy. So, I've got some high expectations of this
horn. Considering I paid $1650 for a 28 year old B&S, and
$1500 for a beat up Selmer 44, it's a steal. Not sure it would
hold it's resale value because it's not one of the big names.
At about 7:39 on this video, this guy plays it. Wow,
Well, definitely can't beat the delivery time from WA to AL, from brassandwinds.com
via Ebay, one day early. Nice surprise.
Packed very well in double wall carton.
Nice sturdy well padded case.
Inside are slots for the neck and the mouthpiece. Other cases
I've had store the mouthpiece vertical, with recesses on both top
and bottom of the case. This one has just a recess on the
bottom half. A Yamaha 5C just fits lengthwise but it's a tight
fit. No way to leave the reed on the mouthpiece in there, too
risky it would get damaged, and if I put the protector on it, then
it doesn't fit.
Does come with an Antigua mouthpiece, I thought it didn't come with
one. Looks identical to my Yamaha 5C. The reed table and rails
seem to be cut in a little deeper; the rails are a bit wider all the
way around. But the chamber, size, tip gap and curve seem to be
identical. Also comes with a Rico 2.5 reed, strap, and grease, and a
cloth and pull through swab. The ligature is a standard two
screw metal, color matched to the instrument.
They do throw in a little plastic gizmo; a reed holder sander.
Will have to see how that works.
The instrument looks just like the photos, so no surprise
The neck, if lined up with my Eastern Music Ref 54, is over an inch
higher at the mouthpiece end, as Peter discussed in his video, and
seems a bit bigger in diameter. The fit into the saxophone is
1. The pearls on the keys are more dished compared to my 54. My
fingers like it.
2. The springs are stiffer and feel very uniform across all
keys. When first playing it I caught myself not pressing
enough a few times.
3. The pinky keys on both hands are well placed. Rollers work
nice. On the right hand the keys are actually raised higher
off the saxophone, than my 54, about an inch. I like where
they fall. I don't need to reach as much. I do have big
hands, so this will be nice for people with smaller hands. The
left hand table keys are a bit closer, so less reach for those
4. Immediately feels comfortable.
5. The key travel distance is pretty short across the board.
Everything feels tight and solid; well put together.
6. The palm keys work as well as any. D is on the palm, D# and
F are at the base of my fingers, which is the case with all the
Tenors I've tried; big hands. They seem a bit closer to the
body and closer together than with the 54. But not a huge
difference. In the long run, no matter what sax I keep, I'll
probably need to put some extenders on the key so they fit my hand
Played it for a couple hours. No complaints. On middle D
with all keys pressed sometimes I get an octave higher. With
the shorter key travels and stiffer springs I just need to work on
the timing of getting all the keys pressed. I had this problem
before on my 54 when making fast transitions from middle B to middle
D. It was a finger timing issue. If the timing is off
you end up blipping the octave key open.
It sounds very much like my 54. Maybe it's that both are made
from higher copper content brass. Resonates really well.
Low notes seem better, easier to initiate. Doesn't take much
beyond breathing. Subtones well. Might be slightly
darker than the 54. Plays well quiet or blasting.
So, I have to give credit to the Eastern Music that it matches the
ProOne pretty well in terms of sound production. But the
ProOne is definitely more refined. Is that refinement worth
2.5x the price? I have 30 days to return it, so I'm going to
play it for a bit.
Second Day 11/10/2022
Wow. It sounds really good. I really like the
Seems easier to play in tune for the most part; better intonation;
neither the high end nor low end is out of range, don't need to make
any huge effort on either end. All the other sax's I've had
either had center notes that were out of line or if one end was good
the other was off, and I found I had to significantly compensate.
Still find myself not pressing a key down hard enough and I lose the
note. This is actually a good thing, because I've always
struggled with being too tense and using too much pressure.
This shows I've learned to easing up. Just need to find the
balance for this sax.
The middle D, with all keys, still octaves up occasionally, but
happens less. Both timing and my voicing help. If I
focus it's fine.
I do notice the slight difference in the angle of the saxophone neck
to my mouth. This is also good in the sense that the distance
between the mouthpiece and my hands is about an inch more.
Being tall, I like the extra space.
The tables keys really are in a good location. My pinky just
falls naturally onto the G#/Ab, in fact I find myself reaching down
past it sometimes, which shows that it is noticeably higher than my
54. The C# is just a slight move down and to the left.
One of the reviews linked above talks about wanting the table keys
just a little closer to the other keys, further up the neck.
He's got short chubby fingers. I think for me, I'd be cramped
if they were any higher.
My lower D#/Eb pad was sticking really bad. Some kind of gunk
got on it during manufacturing or something. I used some zipo
lighter fluid and a swab to clean it off. Some kind of brown stuff
came off. All better now.
I had to figure out a different way to attach my support strap from
the Bb Guard to my harness. It was somehow interfering with
the sound. Not sure if it was pressing on something or what,
but moving it got rid of the problem.
The low notes really do come out easily, even with low air.
You literally can breath them at low air volumes.
Looking at the instrument, it's got all sorts of adjusting screws on
it. I'm guessing the techs will be happy with it.
Wow, time flies.
That D#/Eb pad was still sticking. Cleaned it up again. Took
off the guard so I could open it up wide, wiped it off with more
Zipo fluid, then put some leather treatment on it, then Zipo again,
buttoned her back up. Seems to be better now.
I'm definitely getting more use to the sax. No
complaints. It's going to be interesting to pick up the Ref 54
after a couple week.
The sticking is not going away. Once I un-stick it at the
start of a play session it still sticks a bit, more with time, not
enough to be annoying, and not like when it's sitting
overnight. That's kind of ironic that it has the no stick
linkage for the G# and the D# sticks more than my G# ever did on the
I switched back to the Eastern Music Ref 54 today. Things that
- One of the fingers for Bb is more of a dud on the ProOne.
The all fingers down middle D is also more of a dud on the ProOne.
- The lighter spring force on the 54 definitely allows me to move
- The difference in placement of the table keys is noticeable, but I
actually like the placement of the left hand table keys being a bit
further away on the 54. On the ProOne sometimes it did feel
- The sound is very comparable, with the ProOne being maybe a bit
darker, but not by much.
- The low Bb may be a smidge easier to initiate on the ProOne.
- The ProOne is slightly heavier. But without an accurate scale
that's just a feel. Sometimes that's because of balance.
- Intonation is good on both. I don't feel that I need to make
any adjustments playing back and forth between one and the other.
- The 54 is more free blowing.
So, I think I've made my decision. I'm going to return the
ProOne. It's definitely a better instrument than the B&S
2001 I had, particularly in intonation, but aside from some neat,
and I think good, design features like the G# lifter, the trident
arms on the lower key, and the ringed tone holes on the lower keys,
it has no significant advantage that shows up in the playability
compared to the 54. The 54 is 9 months old, never had any
maintenance done to it (had one table screw that backed out) and it
definitely held it's own. The 54 was $800, the ProOne
$2000. For that much more money it should have some huge
advantages, which it doesn't seem to. The sticking pad, the
stiffer springs, and the dud middle D and Bb actually put the ProOne
at a disadvantage.
I think my search is done... for now. The only thing that
remains would be to get one of the high end Yami's, Yani's, or
Selmer's and see how they stack up. But that's a lot of cash
to tie up, just for curiosity, which I don't have right now, and I'd
never keep an instrument that expensive. Ok, back to playing!
Well, turns out that the seller has a full service shop. So,
in addition to sending me a replacement without the sticky pad
problem, they offered to set up the springs for a lighter
action. Now that's a way better option than me taking it to a
shop, paying to have a new instrument fixed, and possibly messing up
the warranty. After some discussion I agreed to have them give
it a shot.
One of the questions I asked was, just because they can lower the
spring forces, does it mean it's a good idea? Lot of people seem to
have a very high opinion of the ProOne. So, maybe there's a
very good reason that it was designed with high spring forces.
Maybe the action doesn't work right if it's not high? You would hope
that's not the case. If Eastern Music can figure out how to
make a sax work with low spring forces, shouldn't Antigua be able to
do it? Guess I'll find out. They said if I don't like it I can
return it again for a refund, so I have nothing to lose.
The obvious question is why bother? If the Eastern Music plays
as well, slightly better (because there will still be the more dud
Bb and all-fingers low D, on the ProOne; actually it will be
interesting to see if a different instrument is the same), why still
consider the ProOne? Because overall, the ProOne does seem to be
better constructed and thought out. There is a quality
difference that you can feel, and the design features make
sense. Quality is less tangible, but as an Engineer I can
appreciate what I see. Probably in the long run it will
translate to an instrument that is easier to maintain and lasts. I
don't know that for a fact, but the evidence seems to support that,
even though they did screw up on the sticky pad.
Speaking of value, I looked at what Eastern Music is selling
now. My instrument, which cost me $800, can now be had for
even less. I think that's because the COVID economy is killing
everyone, shipments from China are way down in general (though
shipping cost were way up), and they need to sell some instruments.
Great Deal! But obviously resale value on the Eastern is definitely
not there. So, I'll probably just keep it as art! But,
it's not over until the ProOne sings.
It's pretty funny. I posted parts of this review on
SaxOnTheWeb and some people were like, no way some cheap Chinese
horn is better than the ProOne, and that my review basically sucked,
blah blah blah. Like for some reason China can make IPhones
but they can't make Saxophones.
One guy said that they played well, but were kind of clunky.
Not sure if he meant loose. But yeah, the ProOne seemed
Then I found this from the guy who said I was comparing Apples and
"The company I purchase from directly on ebay is Eastern Music and
so far I am very impressed with the quality." ...
"I highly recommend this eBay seller to those who are looking for
an above average horn for a decent price (think high end Antigua/TK
Melody/P. Mauriat). That said, I can not speak for buying directly
off ebay but emailing and asking to have one of their Professional
level with features that are as good or better than Taiwan
saxophones made custom is how I did it." ...
"...expecting a $700 horn which is what I paid and I'm not joking
its a $2800+ horn at Taiwanese quality or dare I say
And this is from a guy I personally chatted with, has a dealers
license, and has tried hundreds of saxophones during his career.
So, no, you don't have to pay a ton of money to get a decent
instrument. The Eastern Music may not be as refined, but it's
a player. They got the basics right and the rest is pretty
And here's a few videos I found with people playing them:
Same guy but doing a head to head with the Eastern Music tenor,
different necks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZjzQL-QtA0k
I like the darker tones, which this one is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kgsmq8nBmp8
Word is that my replacement instrument will ship tomorrow. So
then we'll see. They say they adjusted the spring
tensions. Hopefully it was done well.
It arrived the 29th. It's definitely a different instrument, I
can tell because the finish patterns on it are different. The D#
doesn't have the sticking problem. Still has a little stick,
but no noticeable increase in actuation force. Looks like they
did some work on the spring tension, still a little higher on some
key's than I'd like, but better. I've got until the 12th to
decide if I'm keeping it. If I keep it, I'm probably going to
see if I can make even finer adjustments.
The sticking D# has gotten worse, but if I unstick it at the start
of a play session it never sticks bad enough to effect my
playing. So, the hope would be that if I keep it, and clean
it, this will work itself out. After playing the ProOne
exclusively since I got it, yesterday I was swapping back and forth
to compare again.
The key travel on the ProOne is actually longer on some keys,
especially the low D, E, F, than on the 54. I was wondering
what would happen if I were to close those gaps some, but the sound
starts to change soon as I start to close those ports the slightest
bit, some of the undertones start to get lost, it sounds more
muffled. The middle B key is also a bit higher above the bis key,
which makes it a little more difficult to smoothly press both to get
Bb during transitions.
The ProOne definitely has an advantage on the low end. The low
notes pop out much easier. The tone on the ProOne seems a bit
darker but not by much, less metallic.
The decision to keep it or return it is looming. The ProOne is
definitely more refined. One person on SOW described the
Eastern Music as clunky. Yes, it is s bit clunky compared to the
ProOne; clearances aren't as tight and things actually go click.
It's kind of like a Chevy vs. a BMW. What I need it for, they
both do the job, but nobody can argue that a Chevy is as well built
as a BMW. The BMW drives better, but the BMW comes with a
price. The ProOne is definitely not 2.5x better than the
Eastern Music, but luxury and refinement don't usually come on a
linear scale, because marketing is involved.
It's really gotten me thinking about how the saxophone world is much
like the car industry, or any industry for that matter, even home
appliances. There's always the luxury high end items, which do
give you some desirable features for the money, but mostly it's
bells and whistles, but the price goes up disproportionately, and
they don't really do anything that the lower tier items can't
do. Saxophones are even more so, because there are very minor
differences between one that's $300 vs one that's $10,000. In
that sense, high end saxophones have a tougher time justifying a
huge price. You're getting more into the "collector"
realm. Given what I paid for the ProOne, it seems to be a good
value; a good well built instrument at a reasonable price.
Bottom line is, I don't need it. It's not some huge difference
that's going to make a significantly better player, I'm still going
to sound basically the same. The only reason to keep it is
because I want it. And why would I want it? It looks very
nice, plays well, and probably will last over the long term. And
maybe it will hold it's value, seeing as the latest one's are
selling for as much as $3300, $5400 list!
More playing side by side. The ProOne is more free blowing
(improvement over the last one) and darker, the 54 is more
restrictive and a bit brighter. No doubt, overall the ProOne
is a higher quality instrument.
Regardless, switching between them is pretty seamless; they are
minor differences. I think I've made up my mind to keep the
ProOne. The search is over. As for the Eastern Music,
I'm keeping that also.
Made some additional adjustments. I actually tightened the
spring on the low C a little because it was just too low; if I put
the sax on it's side, the spring force wasn't enough to keep the
port open. Of course it is one of the trident arms, so has
some additional weight.
The little felt that limits the opening of the D# port actually fell
off. Had to put a little Elmer's glue on the screw and stick
it in place.
Also, I got to thinking about the fact the D and D# both sound a
little dud. So, I turned out the limit screw (to open the
ports more) on the low C ,because that's open when the low D plays,
and the D# because that's open when the D# plays. Actually
made a noticeable difference. Now those two notes sound
similar to the rest.
I also installed key risers on the palm keys. They were just
so far away from my hands. I used a combination of slip-on and
Sugru putty. Figure If I want to remove them it will be a lot
easier with the slip-ons installed first, and the D# doesn't need
anything more. I had to build up the other two pretty high,
especially the F key (I used to pieces of Sugur on it.) Looks
like I put a small dent in my D key. Must have put pressure on
it before it was fully cured.
Also put the slip-ons on the side keys. Definitely worth the
effort. The palm keys fit me really nice; they're very close
to my hand and it takes minimal movement to actuate them.
Going to so the same thing to the Eastern Music so I can switch back
No regrets on this instrument. Plays really well.
I took off the thumb hook. My harness really does all the
supporting of the sax and I'm just using the thumbs to locate and
balance. I don't need to carry any weight on my right thumb,
and I've tried to consciously minimize that, but every time I look
down at my thumb, it naturally starts to push up on the hook, with
just enough force to put a slight indentation in it. The hook
is adjustable and I've adjusted it some, but it really doesn't
matter. So, I asked why have it there? No good answer, so off
it came. Started a "thumb
hooks are stupid" discussion on SOTW about it.
Interesting discussion. All the way from yeah, mine is gone
too, to "DON'T TOUCH IT YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS DOING
THAT!" Crack me up. And I got banned for 24 hours.
Ha! Probably because I used the term jerk off. But I wasn't
even the first one to say it. I'm going to have a talk with them.
It would be better if that nut wasn't there, but it's fine.
Gives a tactile feel for where the thumb rests. I may just
build a little ergonomic pad there with SUGRU.
And, that's what I ended up doing. Came out pretty good.
Just took three pieces of Sugru, formed them into a ball and then used
my thumb to squash it in place untill it felt good, and then formed the
edges down a bit on the sides. It works great. And it's
removable if I ever want to change it.